June's Seraphim Costume

[chaoticjune]

EDIT: MOVING THIS TO THE PROPER FORUM BECUASE IT IS NOW GON BEYOND GEN AVDICE. ~Finnlock


Hello everyone, this is my first post on the forum. I'm not a fan of big introductions, so I'll dive right in...

So at some point, I got the idea of making myself a sisters of battle costume stuck in my head. This is probably insanity, especially since I don't even know when I'll have a chance to show it off. (I'm currently living on a tropical pacific island. Awesome beaches, but somewhat remote.) Here's the thing... Sewing, I can do. Making props, I can do. Making something wearable, I can do. Making the actual armor, not so much.

There seem to be a ton of different armor tutorials out there, most of which seem to use differing methods and materials, making choosing a particular method difficult. Worse, most of these tutorials seem to use either foam or some form of bondo/fiberglass. I've never been impressed with the way foam looks when finished, and I've seen how easy it is to damage. (why spend months on a costume that can be ruined in a day?) and the pepekura seems like tons of work, not to mention supremely complicated.

I happened upon some pictures of armor that Finnlock made, and foamed pvc seems like a much more ideal material. (more durable, self supporting, smooth surface) The problem is, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of tutorials for working with the stuff. Most of what I've found talks about dipping smaller pieces into a large pot of boiling water, and doesn't go into much detail. It seems kind of dangerous, not to mention unwieldy trying to form large pieces by dipping them into boiling water.

How hard is it to work with this stuff? can a heat gun be used? I've never actually used one, but it seems easier than boiling water. And what sorts of paint can be used on it? I don't want the stuff to peel off. Also, the sites I've seen that sell the stuff have differing thicknesses, and I'm not sure what the ideal thickness is.

I'm shooting for a Seraphim. I've made sketches of different armor pieces, and have a general idea of what I want to do. I'll have to do most all of my shopping online, due to the remote location, so any merchant recommendations are also appreciated. I already have a great corset picked out, and a toy nerf gun that'll make a great hand flamer after some liberal application of plastic. (going the double hand flamer route like one of the models) The chest plate and back pack are probably the most intimidating, the chest because it has to fit over my chest while still looking like a SoB, and the backpack because I don't know where to start, lol. I do know I want to put red LEDs into the exhaust nozzle wing thingies. I'm not sure how to manufacture the whole thing though. Cardboard as a base seems easily doable... but not sure how it'll look when finished.

This post is a monster... so enough for now. Thanks in advance for all your help <3

[Deetoz]

I believe a heat gun can be used if you're careful. I remember reading that foamboard will lose it's internal structure if heated too much, and perhaps bubble up in the worst areas.

Also, foam only looks bad if it's not treated well and not sealed... And stuff :b

[chaoticjune]

Thanks Deetoz,

I probably haven't seen a good example of foam in person. I suppose there must be a way to make it durable and smooth... but there's like 50 different methods out there with different materials/coatings/processes/etc. seemed easier to go with a rigid thermoplastic.

[PhoenixRevival]

First, welcome to the board!  [img]http://i6.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Best think i can say is you can usually get stuff in small enough quantity to try things out first. If you think thermoplastic is the way you wanna go, then give it a try to make one piece like a bracer or the like... see how you do.

I prefer Pepakura myself and it honestly isn't really complicated but it is definitely time consuming; this is especially true if you cannot rope others into service to cut pieces out. I think that a hybrid between a Pep base and foam overcoat is a decent way to go as the materials aren't that expensive to start and the Resin and Bondo can last a decent time provided you don't over do it.

Good luck in your armor adventure and would love to see those sketches if you decide to post them. Concept art is always cool to me.  [img]http://i6.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

[chaoticjune]

Thanks Phoenix,

It's not a bad idea to give it a small try, I'm just gathering some more info before taking that first step. Seems like I could save myself some time/money by buying the right type of material in the right thickness on the first go.

Time consuming is not really a huge issue, but I don't want to start a project I'll never finish due to the time it takes to complete. plus I have no idea about the resin/bondo stuff...

Most of the sketches are very basic technical views of armor pieces, not anything put together into an entire outfit yet. I was mostly concerned with shape and connection points. like how the thigh piece will connect to the corset suspender loops. I'll go ahead and post some anyways before work tomorrow. (though I think it might be easier to show the material I'm drawing inspiration from.)

Somewhere I have a neat air warmer mask (from when I was in Alaska) that I think will make a neat rebreather, and I also have an idea for the hand-flamer fuel gauge, but those kinds of things are just ideas floating in my head rather than sketches.

[Gunhead]

Hey, welcome. If you are not into Pepakura, I am afraid I don't have much to contribute as pepping is the way I roll. Pepakura is not really that complicated, it is just time consuming grunt work with all the cutting and assembly.

If you are looking to form this out of thermoplastics, then normally yes a heat gun will work to form it. Once it melts into a shape it is hard to get it to go back though!!! And some plastics and thickness, a heat gun may be overkill and cause it to melt too quickly...

But there are sooooo many different kinds of plastic, you might want to hit a wiki and then talk to some industry folks about plastics (and check what you can actually get locally; here in Canada, that generally dictates what I use). Figure out what you want to use, HDPE, Styrene, ABS...

If I might make a suggestion (and this is the project manager in me) break it down into smaller tasks first. Looking at it all at once can be entirely intimidating and overwhelming (speaking from my own experience). Your post shows a lot of enthusiasm. I come here to read stuff like that because it motivates me so thanks! Start on one piece and work from there. It may be that you want to use different techniques for different peices... But having a plan for the entire thing is not necessary to start on one piece. And when you have it done and oh, soooo shiny! I find I can't wait to make another.

But before you completely dismiss EVA foam, check out SaberSaint's work Shiny Foam. I think this is really awesome stuff and not as fragile, if done right, as I think you believe it to be.

As well, there are a number of truly talented folk here who will begin to salivate when you start posting design concepts and concept drawings. Some have even done SoB armour! Post your problems. Post your solutions. By the grace of the Golden Throne, and by our fealty to the Emperor (Our Undying Lord) we will help.

Have faith in the Emperor; the Emperor Protects.

[Voodoo]

June, welcome to the forums! Hows the weather in Lajes? What's your AFSC?

Finding a durable easy to work with material is an issue I am trying to tackle right now. within the next week keep an eye on the Thousand Son Terminator build in the heretic section. If the idea I have works it might just open up an opportunity for a new way to skin foam builds to make them neigh indestructible.

Best of luck, can't wait to see the sketches!

[CLOTHAR]

Welcome.  You can use a heat gun with PVC foamboard.  It actually works pretty well.  I would recommend a gun that has more than one setting though, so that you don't overdo it.  Also, a lot of plastics (including PVC foamboard, aka SINTRA) release toxic gasses when heated.  Try to get an MSDS when you buy the stuff, or look it up online.

[wookieegunner]

Hi and welcome.

To answer some of your questions, the stuff you are looking for is Rigid PVC Foamboard (Sintra is a brand name of the stuff).  This is different then common foamboard in that it is a solid piece of PVC, where as what you normally see as foamboard is styrofoam sandwiched between pieces of paper or cardboard.

As far as bending it, it becomes malleable around 180 degrees Farenheint (about 82-83 degrees Celsius).  By using boiling water you can shape it by draping it over a piece of your body (with appropriate protection such as a thick piece of cloth) to form it.  You can use a heat gun, the issue though is around 300 degrees Farenheint  (150 degrees Celsius) the air bubbles in the foam pop and so you get a depression at that spot.

For a thickness many people use 1/8th of an inch (3mm).

Something to also look into is fencing chest protector for women.  These are made in standard sizes and are going to be easier to work with then trying to build your own.

[chaoticjune]

Gunhead: Thanks, starting small is really a good way to go. I figure I'll start with a single piece, like an arm piece or shin guard. As far as the costume goes, I think I'm going to start with the hand flamers, because I can do that pretty well, and that'll motivate me to continue. And I guess I better start drawing stuff that I can post!

Voodoo: I have no idea what the weather is right now in Lajes, that's in the Atlantic ocean near Portugal (on the other side of the world) Based on their latitude, I imagine they have a much more moderate (and less rainy) climate. I'm on Guam, which is near Micronesia. I don't have an AFSC, but there is Anderson AFB here. I'll check out your terminator build for ideas.  [img]http://i6.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Clothar: wow, that's good to know. I didn't realize that the plastics released dangerous fumes when heated. I wonder if those makerbot things cloud up a room with fumes, they melt the stuff.

Wookie: So maybe a combination of techniques would work? I find it hard to imagine fitting a whole shin guard into one pot of water. I'm probably over thinking it though. I hopefully don't have to worry about it getting up to 150C! The fencing chest protector is a pretty great idea, I just have to figure out how to mount the top portions to it, which seems easier than forming the breast cups. it also should be pretty simple to mount decorations onto it to make it look more armor-like.

I'll get my drawings together to share, looks like people are interested. Just don't expect concept art, expect the scribblings of a mad woman.  [img]http://i6.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

[chaoticjune]

Here's a sketch i did, the proportions are probably off. I'm already really tall (5'11"), so I'm not sure if I want to go with heels or not. The SoB imagery seems mixed between flat and heeled shoes anyways. I still need to consider how the collar/shoulders will fit over a fencing chest piece, or if the corset will have to go over the chest piece. (I had originally hoped the chest would go over the corset, to make it look more like the armor pictures) Remember, I'm NOT an artist [/url]

inspiration for costume:

[CLOTHAR]

I think you have a good concept and a solid plan to put it all together.  You are a well practiced mad woman.

[Cole45]

Nice mockup, but I'd recommend using two straps to connect the greave & thigh pieces, as it will move a bit more naturally, instead of swinging on the single hinge point.

[chaoticjune]

Thanks Clothar,

Cole, I had only really considered hiding the strap. I hadn't thought about movement, particularly since the fit will probably be fairly close to my legs. (except for the ankle area, it's gotta be big enough to get my foot through) I'll have to play with how those pieces are attached. When I think about it now, I realize the single strap would pull the shin armor upward when my leg is bent. Thanks for pointing that out.

I was thinking of thin black conduit to go over the outside hip strap, I could probably do the same for the knee joint straps... something to think about at least.

[Finnlock]

Wow, color me inpressed!

I'm a bit busy this week, but when I have a moment I will post some of the things I have found tat work and didn't work in the builds I have done, I will also try and share some phots of the current Canoness build I made. It's a year old now, but I have not really shown it off.

as for the fumes from Sintra, as long as you are not over heating it and are in a vented area, it's fine. A heat gun is perfect for forming it. If you have a two stage gun it's perfect because you can really control the heat. You don't have to heat sintra up very much to get it to bend the way you want it to. The trick is to do it in stages, not to try and get the full shape you want in one go.

I love the stuff because it is durable, light wight and easy to work with. Hell I build almost everything with exacto knifes, hot glue and a stubborn additude [img]http://i6.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />