Obscurus Crusade

Costuming => Space Marines => Topic started by: reptilelover1995 on March 23, 2015, 06:50:01 PM

Title: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on March 23, 2015, 06:50:01 PM
Hello, everyone!

I'm new here and to most of this process. I did some pepakura when I attempted to make a set of Daedric armor but that didn't work out because I could never get the bondo to smooth out no matter how much I sanded it down.

My goal is to do a life-size terminator costume, but the first thing I want to make sure of is that I get the sizes of the parts right. For the helmet file I found, it's scaled at default to approximately 11 inches tall, 14 inches deep, and 11 inches wide. That sounds a bit small to me, but I'm not 100% sure. I'd like thoughts before I spend a whole ton of time trying to put it together so that I don't end up having to start over.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on March 24, 2015, 11:44:42 PM
I don't know if he posted this here or not, but it sounds like you're using the same file as in this http://protagonist4hire.blogspot.com/2012/01/prop-building-101-part-1-building.html (http://protagonist4hire.blogspot.com/2012/01/prop-building-101-part-1-building.html) and it seems to be scaled fine
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on March 26, 2015, 05:07:37 PM
Awesome! Thanks.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on March 29, 2015, 02:22:19 PM
I've got a few things I'm getting confused about with this pep build. First, I've been seeing some areas where there are edge numbers within the same piece, with no tabs to use for gluing them together. What do I do with those?

Also, when I've been printing it out, it says "the page settings on this printer do not match the settings of the file. Would you like to scale it to fit the page?" or something like that. When I go to print and paper settings, it's set to A4 rather than letter paper, and I changed it to be letter paper before I printed it.

I'm worried that will alter the scale of the finished model, because I know when I did my first Daedric helmet it was way too small, being printed along the vertical axis instead of the horizontal. The same thing happened when I printed out the terminator armor pepakura, and changing its orientation to landscape didn't work either. I was able to get it right for other parts when I was doing Daedric because someone sent me a .pdf version where the pieces were already oriented in landscape, but I can't do that for this set because I don't have the full version of pepakura and honestly don't have a lot of money and can't afford to buy much of anything right now.

Advice is appreciated.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on March 29, 2015, 05:27:08 PM
Some parts of that have areas that should technically be cuts, but are so close together they can just be left as-is. If you change the page size, you'll need to do some part rearranging so nothing gets split between pages (With the trial version of designer you can edit files but not save them).
If you can hang on a bit, I've got a remeshed version of that same helmet ( 868 faces vs 1800 ) floating around somewhere..
Here you go, fresh from the techmarine: http://www.obscuruscrusade.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=80 (http://www.obscuruscrusade.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=80)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on March 29, 2015, 10:59:02 PM
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 01, 2015, 12:26:27 PM
No problem, I can try to do the same for the rest of the terminator files if you want me to
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: rero_design on April 02, 2015, 12:27:11 PM
Terminator armour should be something between 2.50m and 3.00m tall...
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 02, 2015, 02:28:34 PM
The full suit that this helmet is from scales to be about 2.7m tall (if I remember right), but again, this is just the helmet.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 03, 2015, 09:49:55 AM
That would be really great! Man, I'm so excited for this. Honestly I've been trying to figure out ways internally to make the entire thing a bit more bearable to wear for more extended periods without risk of extreme overheating/dehydration, because I think it'd be amazing to make molds of the armor, and cast enough copies to play a real-life version of Space Hulk! It'd certainly take a lot of effort to tweak the board game rules to fit a live-action game and whatnot but I think it'd be worth it.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 08, 2015, 09:50:53 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/5B4kkyS.png)
Here's what I've got so far (The chest will be unfolded shortly), but if you're doing this with bondo to cast it, it's going to take a LOT of it.
I just realised we made a huge mistake; the armour scale used in the original pep files (Compared to the size used in the models) scales it for a normal person, six feet compared to eight. Do you want these kept to the original scale or full size?
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 10, 2015, 05:07:26 PM
I'm looking for full scale. Does that mean the helmet I've been working on is too small?
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: croaker on April 10, 2015, 10:17:12 PM
I can confirm that the pep file in the Library on this site (standard Terminator file) is not full scale (same as Shawn Thorsson's).

I'm nearly done with the bondo stage of my build and it's only human size. Nice to hear that you are going full size! I take it that you are going to make it with the rondo/bondo approach?
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 12, 2015, 11:00:22 AM
It'll look way too small on the full size one, so it'll have to be redone. Sorry I hadn't checked it earlier, but here is the full size one. Tried to keep the parts in a similar layout.  http://www.obscuruscrusade.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=91 (http://www.obscuruscrusade.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=91)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 12, 2015, 03:30:13 PM
It's fine, thank you for the new one. Also, I was talking to a friend of mine and he said something about using a PVA foam injector system to make the costume instead of pepakura. I was wondering why people use pepakura instead of that - my guess is due to expense, but if there are other reasons why pep would actually be better I'd love to know. I'm planning on doing pep regardless because I'm pretty sure a PVA foam injector system would cost a whole buttload of money that I don't have ;p
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 12, 2015, 08:19:28 PM
A lot of people do EVA foam sheets instead of pepakura, due to lower expense and weight. I've never seen a moulding thing like that used but it would probably be much more expensive than pepakura, and you wouldn't be making enough things to offset the cost.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 12, 2015, 10:48:01 PM
Thanks for the info, that's what I figured. I'm gonna stick to pepakura since that's the only thing I know anything about, plus I've already sorta started it so I don't want to scrap and start over again [again] :P.
I printed and started with the helmet, I did notice some of the edge IDs were given incorrect numbers but luckily looking at the computer pep model I can tell how they're supposed to go together. While I'm working on this I'm hoping to come up with a way to have some cool systems inside the armor to make it wearable for longer periods, I'm gonna talk to a few friends in electrical engineering to see what ideas they might have for cooling systems that will REALLY keep it nice. I think the amount of extra space there would be inside the armor due to its size would be more than enough to accommodate some equipment like that and probably even more. I really want to go as above and beyond with this as possible, just because I tend to be ambitious :p
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: cilegray on April 13, 2015, 12:58:54 AM
There are allready some pretty good cooling solutions out there such as vests that can circulate water thru em. You could go over the top and actually build a complete custom watercooling system with radiator and pump mounted inside the suit. All you would need is a few quick disconnects... so you can put the "shirt" with the water circulation on, connect to the suit's system as you suit up.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 14, 2015, 05:23:05 PM
I actually already have a cooling best but the problem I've had is it only helps a small amount, due to it only covering my torso. What I'd really like is a system to actually keep the temperature within the suit itself cool. I don't know how the best way to go about doing that would be, so I'm talking to a few friends of mine who are engineers (electrical and mechanical) to try to come up with a solution.

I'm also hoping to install some equipment like an in-helmet communitions system (walkie talkie type thing), and probably a voice changer to make mine sound a bit deeper. When it comes to making anything, I like to go all-out. With costumes based on sci-fi, I like to make it so that it is as functionally similar to the "real" thing as modern technology and funds allow.

I think it'll be badass.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 22, 2015, 08:52:25 PM
Just finished the pepakura for the helmet, and while I did have issues simply due to the difficulty of holding the damn thing steady while adding new pieces once it got towards the final stages of construction, I've been using duct tape to go over those areas afterwards so they won't cause problems with the rest of the process. I have a friend who will be doing the fiberglass/bondo part, because whenever I tried doing that with my daedric armor I could never actually get the bondo to smooth out no matter how much sanding I did.

I was hoping I could get suggestions for what body part to do next and could get a file that has it to proper scale. Thanks
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 27, 2015, 11:35:42 PM
Sorry to double post but I do still need properly scaled armor files xP
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 29, 2015, 09:52:56 PM
Still looking for properly scaled termie pep files, I can't find them anywhere on here other than the helmet which I've already done, and I don't know by what factor I need to scale the other parts up by to get them to the proper scale. I really don't want to abandon this build, but I can't really go anywhere if I don't have anything but the helmet.

Thanks
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on April 30, 2015, 11:41:48 AM
I'm so sorry, I completely forgot about working on this (I hadn't checked the forum for a few weeks..) but here's the chest for it. It's absolutely massive, being about 1m cubed. A lot of the pieces are spread across several pages, to prevent the confusion seen in the very last pages (Where the thinner parts had to be cut up to avoid using even more paper). The marks for lining up pieces spread across pages are turned on already on it, and again, I'm sorry for the delay.
If you see any errors in it or anything I should fix, just let me know and I'll change it as soon as possible
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 01, 2015, 01:13:51 PM
It's totally fine, I'm just glad I've got that part set. I'll hopefully start working on that sometime this afternoon. My friend will he picking up the pepakura helmet in a couple weeks, so he'll be able to do the resin/bondo process and then make a mold/casts of it. That way I can experiment with different internal hardware without worrying about starting from scratch if I make a big error.

Really looking forward to this!
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 01, 2015, 04:24:50 PM
I just noticed while looking at it that I have no idea how I'm going to glue the pieces together that are split over several pages, because there are no tabs to use to glue them together. Also, on page 17 there are two pieces that are oriented in a way such that I would be unable to cut one out without leaving the other piece without a tab. I'm wondering what I'd want to do there.

Also for some reason it won't let me zoom in to get a closer look at the 2D part, so I can't even see what each piece looks like or what page it's on since it's zoomed so far out. I didn't have that problem when I was doing the helmet so my guess is it has something to do with there being so many pages.

Advice is appreciated! :)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on May 01, 2015, 11:03:53 PM
Pepakura has an option in the paper settings that puts cross marks in the corner of each page you print, so you can line up multi-page parts. It lets you use the borders themselves as tabs, though you shouldn't fold them. As for the overlapping parts I'll change that in the morning, once I get on my computer.
Also the 2D menu lags if there are a lot of numbers, I don't know if you can turn them off in viewer (I think you said you were using that) but it should be an option called "Show edge ID". If not that.. Then you use the wheel to zoom.
I modified the original post's file, to fix that one part error
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 04, 2015, 03:03:43 PM
Yeah I was able to get those once I looked at it more closely. The problem I've had is that for some reason it won't let me use the zoom feature, I've tried using the mouse wheel but nothing happened. I'll try the check corresponding face but I remember on the helmet when I clicked that it would bring up a window showing the names of all the different pieces rather than highlighting which piece it connects to on the 2D panel.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on May 05, 2015, 12:32:05 PM
That's "Check corresponding face" in the 2D pattern area on a right click, I'm talking about the top bar:
(http://i.imgur.com/nRLQhH0.png)
If you check it, it makes zooming crawl to a halt if you have a lot of faces.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 06, 2015, 03:25:27 PM
Thanks! Right now I've got a whole bunch of pieces that are assembled but don't go together so I've just been setting all of them aside all in one place to make sure I don't lose them. I also exported the pages all as a single .pdf so I could search for the edge numbers, but unfortunately on my PC it doesn't work very well (find function is very poor), so I had to use my old MacBook which will randomly shut down/freeze (three beeps then pause then repeats) so this may help.

Also, any advice for assembling this titan? The sheer size of the pieces makes it hard to hold edges steady when trying to align them.

Part of me has started wondering if I could make pep builds of dinosaurs that I've modeled in ZBrush, but the sheer size and poly count would make the supplies probably cost in the thousands x)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on May 06, 2015, 06:38:36 PM
The only thing I can think of is to reinforce the sheets with cardboard or anything you have handy (I used to use popsicle sticks in layers for thin things like knives), and to glue one tab at a time, waiting for it to dry before going on. And as for making dinosaurs, something like Autodesk 123D make (It's free if I remember..) would probably be better suited to that, using cardboard like in this: http://www.instructables.com/id/Giant-Papercraft-Trojan-Horse/?ALLSTEPS (http://www.instructables.com/id/Giant-Papercraft-Trojan-Horse/?ALLSTEPS)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 06, 2015, 06:55:29 PM
Honestly I wouldn't actually do any of my dino models, it was just a thought that had crossed my mind at some point - even if I could make them, I'd have no place to actually put the thing :P
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on May 15, 2015, 11:33:21 PM
As I've been building the torso I've had areas that have simply not been able to stay together due to the fact that I'm only one guy and I can't hold them still for long enough to bind properly so I've had to occasionally reinforce the insides where the tabs interlock with duct tape, and there have been instances where there are considerable holes in the thing due to the near-impossibility of aligning the massive thing properly so I've been going over those after with duct tape as well. Do y'all think that'll be okay (obviously I'll still be doing the resin and whatnot after the thing is done)?

Also, due to its sheer size I cannot build the whole torso until I move into the new townhome this summer - I have nowhere to put it until then, and even the pieces I've glued together thus far take up a ton of space. :p If you have the chance to make any of the pieces that are on the smaller side, I'd love it. :)
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on May 18, 2015, 09:20:40 AM
I honestly have no idea, the largest thing I've attempted for pepakura was a heavy bolter ammo pack; and that was mostly flat pieces so I could use things like cardboard to reinforce them (Something that could work for the large flat sides of the terminator chest). The only thing that would come to mind is using a thin coat of white glue, but you'd have to be careful to not have any parts warp.
I'll get to work on the arms today, it'll be quicker because I can just mirror the entire unfold in pepakura.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: Caramel on May 20, 2015, 12:25:42 AM
Here you go, the entire arm in left and right patterns. If you see any issues just let me know, and it has some triangular bits to support each piece. For the large shoulder pieces, I used those struts as page breaks so you can print it without the inside if you want to.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on June 08, 2015, 05:32:27 PM
Thank you so much! I'm actually heading to Walmart in a few hours to pick up the stuff I need for reinforcing/bondo-ing the helmet. I may decide to scrap what I have of the chest piece right now and just try that again later when I've got more experience and can get a second person to help me.

I also found out that my brother knows someone who is very knowledgeable about cars and is an engineering major at Brown, and when I talked to him he said my idea of having an actual "air conditioning" system within the armor would be possible. I'm hoping that perhaps he can help me with that and any other ideas I have to make this armor the absolute best it can be.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: CLOTHAR on July 15, 2015, 09:39:21 PM
Great work on this.  I might have to add a Terminator to my build list.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 13, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
Hello, after a long hiatus, I have somewhat resumed the process of making a life-size suit of Terminator armor. I redid the helmet because my first attempt was asymmetrical, and right now it is waiting for my friend with experience using Bondo and resin and whatnot to do those steps. However, I have come across a major problem with the shoulder pads, and need advice on how I should proceed.

The pepakura file for the shoulder pads has a completely closed internal cavity, which means that if I were to complete the paperwork I would be unable to reinforce the inside with fiberglass mat to strengthen it for the Bondo (and eventually molding). At first my thought was to just leave the inside wall completely unbuilt, but the problem then is the thing is too flimsy. My second thought was to build only the sides of the inner wall, while leaving the middle undone. That way it would maintain its shape, but I could still access the inside to reinforce it. I wanted to get people's thoughts and advice on this, and how I should proceed.

Also, due to problems of flimsyness with the large pieces for the chest plate, I was thinking of doing that one using EVA foam. I was wondering what thickness I would want to use, and also how you go about getting the shapes of the pieces (and the fold guides) printed onto said foam.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the necro (I figured since I was the one who started the thread, I could necro it)!
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: vonjankmon on April 16, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Foam requires some special considerations. The three big ones are that you will not need to make all of the cuts the Pepakura fold out tells you do, the foam bends well and holds it's shape so you just kind of have to eye it a bit bend it in places where Pepakura wants you to cut and rejoin.

The second is that for large pieces when cut flat the foam will match your printed template but once you bend it to turn it into a 3D shape, a leg piece for instance the foam will actually be larger than you want it, you need to keep the paper template, cut out the foam, then bend the foam into the shape it will be in and then lay the paper template over it to see how much more you need to trim the foam by. If you don't do this some pieces will end up larger than what you want, it may not be a big deal but for larger pieces, upper leg for instance it makes a significant difference. 

Third you need to account for the thickness of the foam when joining two pieces together, the Pepakura files assume paper but if you're using 1/4 inch foam you could find that depending on how the joint comes together whatever you built ends up 1/4-1/2 thicker than it should be.

For larger areas I would recommend 5/8-1/2 inch foam, that will hold it's shape well, 1/4 inch will likely work also but I wouldn't go below that.
Title: Re: Terminator armor scale
Post by: reptilelover1995 on April 16, 2018, 04:10:30 PM
Thanks! Sounds like foam would be extremely complicated - but given the sheer size of some of the pieces it seems unavoidable. I also still need to figure out the issue with the shoulder pads, so if anyone could just let me know if my proposed solution would work or if there is some other method I should consider that would be great!